Angelo Gaja: There is no perfect wine

He is the most famous wine maker of Italy and one of the most eminent people of wine worldwide. His wines are counted among the most expensive in the world as they have fanatic friends everywhere, people that are willing to pay 200 or 300 euros for a bottle with his name on it.

Angelo Gaja

The Barolo and Barbaresco of yours receive very high ratings and appreciation from all the well-known wine critics of the world, while, at the same time, they are sold at prices equivalent to the top estates of Bordeaux and Burgundy. How did you manage this?

I did not achieve this on my own as I represent the fourth generation of my family. I had a grandfather and a father who did an excellent work before me. When I started working at the winery in 1961 my father was a leader in his field in Italy, where his wines were sold at the highest prices.

I always try to explain that to become successful in a field like viniculture, producing good wines; someone must have been working for you in the previous years. You need some generations of hard work for you to have a success. Personally, I am the receiver of the success. As for the demand, as a rule, it is bigger than the supply and that is the reason why the prices are constantly at the level they deserve.

Your wines, especially Barolo and Barbaresco, manage to conserve the strength and the depth of the Nebbiolo variety, while they have at the same time an even richer colour, a bigger and juicier fruit, better balance and a more elegant style. How did you achieve this?

This is the work of our wine maker, Mr Guido Rivella, who started working at our winery in 1970. Despite his not so easy character, he is still there doing a fantastic job as he managed to modernize, step by step, the wine with the true characteristics of the wines the Nebbiolo variety produces always in mind.

He always understood that the wines produced by Gaja are unique as to their characteristics and quality, but beyond that, they could never be like the ones that my grandfather or my father was producing.

Despite the success that your wines Barolo and Barbaresco had, you did something that a Burgundian or a Bordelaise would never have done. You planted, in the heart of Nebbiolo, French varieties like Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc, a move that someone could consider as an acceptance of the superiority of these varieties. Is that so?

No, it is not. We decided to make this move at the end of the 70’s beginning of the 80’s.

The idea was to get to know the fine quality of the wines that were made by international varieties. The most important, though, was to plant Cabernet Sauvignon and Chardonnay in some small areas, hoping to make some really good wines out of them, which would form the key that would facilitate the selling of Barolo and Barbaresco.

In the international market, the taste of Cabernet Sauvignon and Chardonnay is always better known to the connoisseurs than that of Barolo and Barbaresco.

In the last years you have bought two estates in Tuscany, obviously not because you wanted to betray Piemonte. What urged you to make this move?

The Gaja winery relies on the grapes of its vineyards. We do not buy grapes or wines. In good years, our total production reaches the 350000 bottles at the most. In mid 80’s, I began to receive offers for cooperation with producers from abroad, from Santa Rita in Chile for example, but also from Australia, South Africa and mainly the U.S.A.

I explained that I could not cooperate with someone outside Italy, as I was not prepared for something like this. However, when I received an offer for cooperation with Robert Mondavi, I could not answer him directly that I was not prepared and I could not do such a thing. Although I was flattered by the offer, I was not feeling ready for such cooperation. I avoided telling Robert this, though, creating confusion.

Robert reminded me of his offer every time we met, so I asked him how we could collaborate while I was just producing 350000 bottles in contrast to the 25 millions of his. He insisted, he told me that we would make a small winery, so the confusion remained for a long time until 1991 when he called me to a meeting.

I went alone, while Robert was waiting for me with his assistant and two lawyers. I felt awkward for not having clarified my position from the beginning, so I explained to him that for an Italian,  a cooperation is like a marriage and in a marriage there are some presumptions like sex, and ‘sex’ between a mosquito and an elephant is not very comfortable.

That was a very good lesson for my assistants and me. We decided that if we wanted to increase or double our production, we would have to increase equally the area of our vineyards, something very difficult to be done. Even if you do have the money, there will always be some producers that do not want to sell their land.

We decided, therefore, that we had to invest in another area of Italy. We went to Tuscany and applied our principles making wine from our own vineyards. We bought a winery in 1994 in Montalcino, where we produce 50000 bottles of wine and in 1996, we started having our new winery built in Bolgheri, the Ca’Marcanda, in which in two-three years we will be producing 500000 bottles of wine.

Your wines are amongst the most expensive in the world. Does a wine that hits such a high price rely only on its top quality or does it also need a strong and clever marketing? 

Top quality must be obligatory for all wines that are sold at high prices. The market is so competitive that is inconceivable to sell poor quality wines at high prices. I believe, though, that there is an even bigger obligation that concerns the ability of one to produce wine that reflects the philosophy of the winery and the vineyard from which it originates as well as the history, the prestige and the fame of the producers or the area.

There are consumers all over the world who like to buy some of the ‘dream’, the dream of buying a ‘young’ wine that will evolve with the years. This is very important, because it is something that can happen in only some ecosystems and not all over the world. There is much confusion on this issue, because many believe that it could happen anywhere in the world.

In Europe, the vine growers and wine makers have discovered centuries now those specific fields and vineyards that can produce wines of great ageing, wines that through a long process their quality improves. There is still confusion about the wines of the New World, but time will come, in 50, 60 or 70 years from now when their quality will be confirmed.

Some of your wines have received the greatest rating, like the Barbaresco Sori Tildin of 1990. Do you believe, therefore, that you have already made the perfect wine or you still pursue it?

I believe that there is no perfect wine. Even if a wine gets top marks, we cannot consider it perfect. The perfect wine is something that relies on the consumer’s opinion. Many times, they ask me which of my wines I prefer. I drink wine only with a meal, never in between, that is why my preference in a wine depends on the meal. I usually drink white wine with fish and red with meat. I can say, therefore, that there is no particular wine that I prefer. I have, though, recollections of wines that I had in very special moments, just because the moments were so special. To turn back to the issue of the ‘perfect wine’, I would like to hope that I would produce it soon.

Have you tried Greek wines? I am asking you this, because in north Greece they cultivate a local red grape variety named Xinomavro that resembles Nebbiolo.

I am sorry, but I do not know well the Greek wines. I had the chance to be in Greece last year together with my representative who gave me to taste some Greek wines. I believe Greece, which together with Italy has the largest variety of ecosystems in Europe, is now on the way of discovering its identity in the production of fine quality wines.

Some producers are very proud that they produce good wines from Greek varieties, despite the fact that some others mix Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon and other international varieties with the local ones. That means that we have new ideas and new dreams all the time. It is also very important that Greek consumers ask for better quality from the Greek wines, offering them their support in this way.

You must make the first step in your own country and then abroad. It is also important to have leaders in the quantitative production of wine in combination with the small estates devoted to the qualitative production of wines from chosen grape varieties and vineyards.

I have read something that Hugh Johnson said about you, that you have not made a sparkling wine, because you already have enough sparkle in you. What would you say to end this conversation with a bit of champagne?

I could not say no!

12/06/2005